Did anyone else receive one of these? According to their web site, US Code Title 13, sections Section 141 and Section 193 your response is required by law.
In reality, those sections outline that The Secretary (who is presumably defined elsewhere) can take surveys as a part of their census process. It is Section 221 that requires you to respond:
Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided…
That’s just a crock.
Oh, sure, census information is useful and all that. It’s just the principal of it. I guess I’ll have to ask the nice lady who came to my door for some evidence that she is an authorized officer or employee of the Deparment of Commerce, or a bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of The Secretary.
Heck, I’d pay the $100 if it weren’t for Title 18, Section 3571 (allegedly Section 3559 as well, but that seems to deal with imprisonment and not monetary fines). With it on the books, the “not greater than $100” fine becomes “not greater than $5000” fine. That really blows.
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718 responses to “American Community Survey”
Shannon,
The mailing phase starts the month you received the survey (feb). Mar would have been the calling phase and April the visit phase, which means you’re not technically done until the end of April. Hopefully you will be spared the visits. My visits started the second week of the last month and ramped up with more visits during the last week, including twice a day some days.
We received our ACS in early February and I received a couple of cards and two complete surveys, but no phone calls – could be because I only have a cell phone not sure – also no visits at all. I am feeling pretty lucky after hearing all of your stories. I have been prepared for it, but am just wondering when my 90 days actually started, lol
There is a lot of controversy surrounding the ACS from the Census Bureau.
The first census instituted by the Founding Fathers was for counting people so they would be fairly represented in government. What I hear people saying is that the American Community Survey goes far, far beyond that function and is invasive and offensive and I agree.In addition to the multitude of personal questions I find the behavior of most census workers to be offensive. Most of these workers are temps yet they act as if you are personally affronting them when you practice civil disobedience in refusing to answer any question other than how many people live in this house.
The temporary positions of these workers will be up I believe, in June, I think that is corrrect. June or not, they are still temp jobs but they are going to be included in the unemployment figures so that for a while it’s going to look like the job market is improving but of course that is the same type of gerrymandering the census bureau uses when it counts prison inmates who (except in two or three states)lose their rights to vote.
The census forms are also sent to abandon buildings. When the census bureau discovers that a building is abandon they simply fill in the form with information that would be gathered from the surrounding area.
So in essence, the stats are padded all around. How skewed is that?
It has now been several weeks since I’ve had any tel. calls, letters from American Community Survey people. I told the caller before last not to bother us anymore and that I was perfectly aware of the purpose of ACS and the marketing interests.
One tel. call after that and she rattled on and on about how it was going to help the community. I asked her repeatedly what would happen if I chose not to respond. I had to ask this 3 times during her dialogue before she finally said it was the law and I could be fined. I said I would not be responding and she told me that someone would be coming to the house.
I said to go ahead, but I would not be receiving unwelcome guests. Almost before I got that sentence out, there was a very clippy, musical “good-bye!” and we have heard nothing, nor had any ACS people show up. Don’t Back Down!!
I wasn’t responding specifically to your post. My post had more to do with annoying the data junkies who read these threads and defend the data collection. I agree about what is admissible in court. I would not have wasted my time to give false answers. I didn’t give any answers. I don’t fear CB at all. I have done enough research to know how the whole thing works. There are a bunch of reasons why no one will be prosecuted.
I only answered the enumeration question on the 2010 census. I don’t expect much to happen as a result of not answering the rest of the questions.
I had a 3 year head start on this. So I do get it and I do know what they want.
You’re missing the point, Cathy.
I know it’s not really confidential. This is why I gave them fake information. I filled in every blank with a name such as Heywood Jablome or Jaques Strappe, made them all related but different races, impossible ages ranging from infancy to 1000 years old, and put the rejection hotline as the phone number.
I know the information is not really confidential, but it is not admissible in court. This is why I can’t be prosecuted. They have no evidence that is admissible in court. This is why I’m posting this online instead of explaining it to a lawyer on a collect call.
Get it? Don’t give personal information on the Census, but for the Love of God, don’t fear deliberately bucking their results. That’s exactly what they want.
The only true way to keep info private is not to give it out. The CB only promises to keep it private. Promises??? Trust the Gov with a promise? Data collected by the CB was accidentally posted on the internet. No one was prosecuted for the accident. If we accidentally hit another car, we pay for the damage, well so should the CB.
It is keep private for 72 years. Why 72? Reminds me of the 72 virgin thing. Why not 100?
The CB had discussions about having the ACS answered on line, but the site could not be kept secure from hackers. What about the rest of their computers? How safe are they? What about all the paper surveys? How does the CB handle them? Shred them? Dump them into a dumpster? I would not believe a word the CB says.
Why collect this data at all? This is my biggest problem with the surveys. Communities don’t need info filtered through a gov entity. Communities need creative ideas not gov intervention. The gov doles out money to state and local govs like a drug dealer handing out drugs to get everyone hooked. How much better communities would be if tax money stayed put instead of being controlled by the whims of elected officials pandering for votes? Communities don’t benefit from having gov programs shoved at them.
No one looking at this date is smart enough to know what to do with it. Friedrich Hayek, an economist said that the economy is simply too large and complicated for info to be gathered together and operators aren’t smart enough to make it work.
The problem the gov has is that it has gotten too involved in the lives of the public and it has warped the economy with layers of legislation, with each layer trying to correct the problems created by the previous layer.
The CB has become a giant job protecting entity, which has take wasting money to a fine science. It is constantly over budget and not capable of doing the enumeration accurately. It has no business conducting surveys or being used as a front to invade the public’s privacy no matter how important the date if believed to be.
The CB needs to ask only ONE question – How many “persons” live at a particular address. That is it! Nothing more. No counting by category. No questions about health, marital history, spending habits or commuting preferences. Just because people inhabit a particular area doesn’t mean that those people patronize shops, schools or public transportation in that area. The gov doesn’t need any more opportunities to throw money at what it perceives as a problem. The Constitution does not give the gov the right to micro-manage the American public.
We filled out the census about 3 weeks ago, no problem, like they say 10 questions, 10 minutes. last week my wife calls me at work and asks me how much I paid for electric last month… I said what are you talking about?? she said she is filling out the census, I said the census has been filled out and has been sent back. She said that this is another census, and she tells me that it asks for name, phone, date of birth, etc, etc, I say DO NOT FILL OUT any more, wait till I get home. I called the number and I told them that we had filled out the census, so what is this “survey”? She said the usual stuff, it seemed like she was reading it from something: “you have been selected at random to participate…” I told her I DON’T want to fill it out!!! give it to someone else!! she insisted and read me the whole thing again… I said again I am NOT filling it out, you got my 10 answers in the census, that’s it!!! she then told me that I was required by law to fill it, so I said: well, then come here and arrest me!!. If and when I get arrested, I will contact you.
Cathy and Scared,
It’s been a while. I closed my browser and forgot about this place, and I just skimmed the replies, so forgive me if I missed anything.
The CB cannot legally obtain cell phone numbers, even though the government is exempt from DNC. Why? You argue, in court, when you sue them, that they can’t exempt themselves because that’s a conflict of interest, and you argue, if they rule against you, that they can’t rule in favour of themselves because that’s a conflict of interest. With a decent lawyer, you can’t lose.
Anyway, as far as the fines. The fines, from what I read in the paper are up to $100 for not answering a question, up to $500 for a wilfully false answer, and up to $5000 and jail time for a false answer with the intent to distort the population information. Guess which one of those I’m guilty of.
But, I’m not scared, because they won’t enforce it. The policy is there to scare people into answering accurately, but they know that, if they enforce it, they’ll have their own problems. And, they did, in 1960, when they last issued a fine. The fined challenged the questions and those fines were dismissed by a court of law.
Okay, so say they attempt to enforce it anyway. What’s their evidence? The form itself? First of they, they have to prove I filled it out. Since there are more than one of us here, that will be a challenge, especially considering they have no evidence it ever was filled out. No evidence that is admissible in court, anyway. The way the code is written, the information provided in the Census form is sealed for 72 years. The statute of limitations is considerably shorter than that. Meaning that they can’t possibly make it stick in court, so why would they even spend the money to try?
Don’t worry about it, Scared. Do as you will. Fill it out accurately, ignore it, or lie on it. It makes no difference to you, personally, and I highly doubt what difference it makes to the bullies that call themselves authority.
There is no government. There are only bullies. “Give us your lunch money and do as we say or we’ll shove you in the lockers!” Guess what? There aren’t enough lockers for everyone!
I received the ACS, and was really worried about answering the questions. It seems invasive and an invitation for identity theft. I thought we might need an attorney, or maybe even to contact Beck or another brave media celebrity to get someone on our side. Then I found this discussion via google. It’s comforting to know that we are not alone in our predicament.
The questions, directed to be answered for at least 5 members of my household, are an invasion of not only mine and my spouse’s privacy, but also of our adult children.
Who has time to gather all that info anyway? Water and electirc bills and mortgage statements for a year? Isn’t it a burden enough that we have to file a slew of tax returns? Don’t the feds have enough access to our personal info already? What could they possibly want to know all of this for? Our incomes? What TIME we leave and come home from WORK? It’s ridiculous!
Why is no one talking about this?