Don't Back Down

Posted by Chad Everett on January 18, 2005

A Slippery Slope Indeed »

Unfortunately, this isn't the title of the same name from Lemony Snicket. It's not even a book. It's a great deal of hubbub about someone who has decided that they don't want their RSS feed to be available in Bloglines. This is an interesting decision, and you will find many opinions about it.

I'm not going to question the decision. It's his (presumably, it could be her) feed. I just don't get it. Not the decision. It's an admirable one, that you decide you want control. I think it's great that he made his choice and has defended it, in spite of all the criticism. What I don't get is what I will call the consistency of the decision.

That is to say, the argument provided in support of the decision is remarkably inconsistent. You don't want or like Bloglines, and don't want them to have your feed, that's fine. Say so. You don't or aren't able to do it yourself through .htaccess or other methods, that's fine. Say so. You aren't to be troubled with applying your licensing consistently between your web pages and your feeds, that's fine. Say so.

But when the defense instead takes the form of a perceived slight - one which hasn't even happened (that is to say, Bloglines inserting advertising) - and singling out one of many providers who might do this, it makes no sense to me. Still, it is his decision and I don't argue it. I just don't understand.

There are other online aggregators who make money from aggregating feeds. One of those is Newsgator Online. They actually collect money for particular plans (or did, the last time that I looked). How is it that a venture that is actually generating revenue (presumably), at this moment, is not pointed out, but another venture, that is not collecting even a cent of revenue, is singled out? That makes no sense.

And it really shouldn't stop there. Organizations such as Google do the same thing with web pages. Sure, it can be argued that you can profit from Google. But there is nothing stopping a competitor from buying ads through Google that show up when they find your page. The ad isn't on the page itself, but it is a very fine line, isn't it? Especially when you consider that Google is actually raking in the dough from their advertisements and Mark, so far as I know, hasn't inserted even a single one into a feed on Bloglines.

What's more, one of the arguments for Google (and by implication, against Bloglines) is that Google's ads can generate revenue for the site owner, is just bunk. If your competition puts an ad on Google that comes up when your site is found, you don't make a cent from that ad. And no one ever said that Bloglines wouldn't allow a similar arrangement, so that's really not much of an argument. In fact, Bloglines never said that you couldn't simply opt-out of the advertising. Remember, this is something that hasn't happened yet, and someone has their panties in a bunch because it might. Still, it's their choice to do so - it just doesn't make sense to me.

And lest I seem unbalanced (in terms of the debate, my mental state won't be discussed at this time), it's not just that there is one person who made a decision I don't understand. There are people supporting the decision who don't comprehend. Take this person, who thinks that using a client-side aggregator, specifically FeedDemon, is an action supported by the declaration against Bloglines. Uh, okay. What if FeedDemon uses Bloglines Web Services to get its feeds? The line shrinks even further.

It seems to me that there are loads of technological issues here that a lot of people simply don't understand. Hopefully someone will before this gets completely out of control.

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Comments (5)

I think the point raised on Irish Eyes was that Feed Demon will find feeds that are removed from Bloglines by their authors. Whether someone objects to advertisements next to their blog feeds is no big deal. What is a big deal is dealing with a shrinking source of information. If you depend on the Trademark Blog as a professional source and you want it served as a feed, you may need some other method other than Bloglines. Enter Feed Demon--or any other client side aggregator for that matter.

IANAL. The legal side of this is fuzzy at best.

FWIW, I think the biggest issue is that I can go here and see the entire content of your feed (without being logged in to Bloglines) and with © Bloglines at the bottom.

Worse, that page is fully spiderable by Google, etc, so theoretically someone could find Bloglines pages before the original author's page. (unlikely, but...)

If Mark fixes that, and makes it so that the content is only available to Bloglines users, I think most objections will fade away.

(This whole debate rather reminds me of the Dejanews debates in 1997, when users who'd previously published stuff to USENET were suddenly up-in-arms that someone was displaying it with advertising and © Dejanews.)

Rod.

Bernie, you have a great point. But the problem is that people want a server-side aggregator. If they don't, how can you explain the success of Bloglines (or, to a lesser extent, Newsgator)? Any server-side product will potentially run into the same issue. At worst, it is a similar one, as Newsgator may charge a subscription fee, but not earn anything from ads. Why is that better?

Even if you choose a client-side piece of software (for instance, FeedDemon), you may not be able to get the data you want, because the client polls a server to get the feed. I don't know if FeedDemon is intelligent enough to allow you to pull data from Bloglines when available and directly from a publisher when not - but I'd assume not at this point. That means even someone trying to get to the blog through what they perceive as a client-side solution won't be able to do so, and that is where this sort of action really comes into play.

Generally speaking, people don't care about the source. They just know when they cannot get something. And I don't personally read the Trademark blog - it is quite possible that the content there is something that can't be found anywhere. But if it's like most other blogs (even this one), the content can be found elsewhere, so the elsewhere will be the one that gets the readers. Which is even worse than allowing your competitors (or a service such as Bloglines) to gain a few cents from your feed. It's actually driving them there. What sense does that make?

Rod, you are of course correct, and IANAL either. I don't think the decision is a legal one at this point. I don't care if he wants to drop his feed from Bloglines in the very public way that he did, or quietly block the crawler's IP address. I just don't understand it, from a readership perspective. As I just mentioned to Bernie, this may serve to drive readership to other feeds, which certainly cannot be the desired result.

Instead, why not work with Mark (as you and I know is possible) to make the server-side aggregation work as intended? For instance, display rights information, contact information, and whatever else might be perceived as "missing". Allow individual feeds to opt-out of (or, even better, opt-in to) advertising. Much as with Google, if I don't participate, I don't collect any money. For some, that might not matter. For others, it will.

Arbitrarily removing yourself from a single location, that may have further impact down the road, is what doesn't make any sense to me. It's like a personal vendetta against Bloglines - which is certainly okay. As I've mentioned, I don't care about the decision. I'm just trying to understand it. At this point, I don't think that it's something I'd ever even consider. There is, as yet, not a single compelling reason that I've seen that would lead me to make such a choice.

I agree that the masses want server-side aggregation. It would be as helpful as web mail for most people.

I don't want to get caught defending the principle of removing content from aggregators because that defense runs counter to the way I ruthlessly scrape and remediate content from many sources with attribution and within author constraints.

In the interim, I think several methods of tracking aggregated content makes most sense--like UPS for a rack of Live Journal servers. That's why I run Userland's aggie, Feed Demon, Bloglines and Blogrolling. Where the content intersects lies elements of social currency. When one of the sources goes limp, I have to revert to manual probes and that's not good use of time.

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